Curse

Voltar · Aug 23, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

So usually i use heroes and hench to get done what I need to get done. Since (for better and worse) HM has occassionally taken me out of my tab/spacebar mantra (some of it is still pretty tab/spacebar-safe) and required me to actually use people for some of the missions (at least the ones where masters is time-sensative), I've noticed a new phenomenon of, "I don't know anything about (profession X) but the Wiki and popular gossip tell me that blah-blah-blah is the best elite and lah-dee-dah is the best, "build".

Has anyone who pugs a lot noticed this or did I join an alliance with some really stupid people in it? I guess I've been pretty sheltered too since I only really play my ranger in HM...i ping my build usually and nobody says anything...but I've joined groups recently where people have demanded particular builds or skill combos that were completely stupid and/or irrelevant for the mission at hand.

Has anyone else noticed an increase in this kind of behavior?
Is it universal that the people that know how to play your class the least are the ones that insist you take their build the most?

Anyone else agree that someone who tells you that [wiki]barrage[/wiki] is the best ranger move in the game has obviously never played a ranger?

actually...everry ranger who caps barrage for the first time thinks it's the best ranger skill in the game for about a month at most before they realize it's about the worst ranger skill in the game ([wiki]otyugh's cry[/wiki] was changed so it's no longer the worst ranger skill in the game) and the wiki definition still has the old description.

Zinger314 · Aug 23, 2007, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltar

So Has anyone who pugs a lot noticed this or did I join an alliance with some really stupid people in it? I guess I've been pretty sheltered too since I only really play my ranger in HM...i ping my build usually and nobody says anything...but I've joined groups recently where people have demanded particular builds or skill combos that were completely stupid and/or irrelevant for the mission at hand.

Here we go again.

Healers Wisper · Aug 23, 2007, 06:45 PM // 18:45

not news, just eleetist who prob wrote the wiki themselves. Dont like it don't PuG, leave said PuG, or join an alliance/guild with people who are more openminded.

Malice Black · Aug 23, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

What has elitism got to do with anything?

max gladius · Aug 23, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

voltar, i fully agree... our guild recruits from only pugs... and i make sure i pug at least 1 or 2 times a week... last 2 months, ive recruited noone, but i sure have a stronger love for my guildies....

so tired of hearing... well the wiki says... then i usualy comment, yes the wiki says that, but the wiki got standard on this mission....

eek i posted on ur dupe thread...

Leonhart · Aug 23, 2007, 06:49 PM // 18:49

I'm one of those wiki followers for pugs, I just like to point out things and have the team prepared for said events. Better to go in prepared then blind and unaware of the dangers.

Omniclasm · Aug 23, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonhart

I'm one of those wiki followers for pugs, I just like to point out things and have the team prepared for said events. Better to go in prepared then blind and unaware of the dangers.

This works for like Gate of Madness, where you NEED stance removal, and where Spoil Victor pretty much owns him. In other missions, is it just pointless because they are easy enough as it is. Horribly bad builds though....yeah.

Healers Wisper · Aug 23, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

anyone who berates my build and insists that I bring something else = eleetist IMO.

Now there are paces where some group builds are tried and true. gates of madness and deep are two of those said places. Other then that, build should suit the players. Only build I ever critisize are fire builds on fire Island and MM where there are no real exploitable corpses.

Squirrel Oo · Aug 23, 2007, 07:04 PM // 19:04

This has been around ever since wiki and guru became popular. The thing I personally don't like is the trade illusions that people believe in. "but guru said this thing costs 100k", "guru says 10k I sell for 5k"... and etc. The truth is people trust these sites way too much. There is no arguing about the info I have found here and in wiki, but sometimes it justs misleads people. I haven't seen anyone insisting on me using a particular build just because wiki said so, but I have definitely met some people that just asked for a build and kicked me If I disagreed. In such cases I just make my own party for missions. It's normal when you ask someone to be a MM/SS necro for example but asking for a particular skillbar with weird skills just because you read it in a site is plain stupid. When these skills actually make the missions way easier it's OK. Same thing goes for prices. The majority of ppl trusts guru for a price check. We all know that most of the green item prices are really outdated (at least they used to be, I haven't checked it lately) and almost everyone claims that "wiki said" what the price of everything is. Too bad they don't realize how wrong they are in some cases. I consider such guys amateur traders.

And these "tempting offers" - wiki says 10k but I sell for 5k... IDK if people actually go for that. Big mistake. Anyways, my point is that this syndrome has been around for a long time. Don't take it personally, just ignore such players and make your own party for example. Or consider the possibility that the build they want you to use is working fine. But when it seems crazy just move on and leave the idiot leader alone. :P

Chilly Ress · Aug 23, 2007, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Most people are elitist because most pugs in pve have really bad players who think barrage with apply poison is good.

Antitorgo · Aug 23, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Healers Wisper

anyone who berates my build and insists that I bring something else = eleetist IMO.

So if you ping a build that I know would suck for whatever area and I say "The build won't work here" that makes me elitist?

I'd at least take the time to try and explain why it sucked I guess, but for you to not take constructive criticism is something you might want to reconsider.

Omega X · Aug 23, 2007, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Healers Wisper

not news, just eleetist who prob wrote the wiki themselves. Dont like it don't PuG, leave said PuG, or join an alliance/guild with people who are more openminded.

Best comment in the entire thread.

R!ghteous Ind!gnation · Aug 23, 2007, 07:20 PM // 19:20

I have been in enough pugs to know that there are some people forming groups that don't know WTF they are talking about... just the same there are lots of people who run builds that make me think that they are at LEAST 1/2 retarded... so I don't know if the person was a moron or if your build really did suck... but either could be the case.... btw like others have said, this is nothing new at all.

Malice Black · Aug 23, 2007, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrel Oo

This has been around ever since wiki and guru became popular. The thing I personally don't like is the trade illusions that people believe in. "but guru said this thing costs 100k", "guru says 10k I sell for 5k"... and etc. The truth is people trust these sites way too much. There is no arguing about the info I have found here and in wiki, but sometimes it justs misleads people. I haven't seen anyone insisting on me using a particular build just because wiki said so, but I have definitely met some people that just asked for a build and kicked me If I disagreed. In such cases I just make my own party for missions. It's normal when you ask someone to be a MM/SS necro for example but asking for a particular skillbar with weird skills just because you read it in a site is plain stupid. When these skills actually make the missions way easier it's OK. Same thing goes for prices. The majority of ppl trusts guru for a price check. We all know that most of the green item prices are really outdated (at least they used to be, I haven't checked it lately) and almost everyone claims that "wiki said" what the price of everything is. Too bad they don't realize how wrong they are in some cases. I consider such guys amateur traders.

And these "tempting offers" - wiki says 10k but I sell for 5k... IDK if people actually go for that. Big mistake. Anyways, my point is that this syndrome has been around for a long time. Don't take it personally, just ignore such players and make your own party for example. Or consider the possibility that the build they want you to use is working fine. But when it seems crazy just move on and leave the idiot leader alone. :P

WTF?

Quote:

Originally Posted By Healers Wisper anyone who berates my build and insists that I bring something else = eleetist IMO.

LOL..that statement is just so wrong. While I support individual builds and people using them, sometimes cookie cutter is best.

Enix · Aug 23, 2007, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Barrage is far from the worst elite in the game.

It is the only spammable ranger AoE skill and has decent damage, does not cause scatter, and spikes with splinter weapon.

There are other "good" ranger elites, yes. I dont critique ranger builds unless they bring somethning useless like Laceration.

There are only so many skills in the game and it is natural for perferred builds to surface over time.

Being elitist implies that there is a superior option (build), and if there is a better build for a certain area, then heck ya I will be elitist.

Anet has said that HM missions can be completed with mastery with H/H teams - no other humans required. If you are having difficulty, perhaps you should rethink your team build.

Healers Wisper · Aug 23, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitorgo

So if you ping a build that I know would suck for whatever area and I say "The build won't work here" that makes me elitist?

I'd at least take the time to try and explain why it sucked I guess, but for you to not take constructive criticism is something you might want to reconsider.

Key word = berate. Constructive critisism is great. anyone who suggest something and works with me on a build and can give constructive feedback on why changes should be made and listen to what I say is great. I have learned alot from constructive PuGs and guildies.

However blindly saying you build sucks cause wiki says so is not constructive or benifitial for the person to learn from.

To malace, I understand cookie cutter builds work. Read my whole post pls. I refuse to goto into the deep without the Steel wall group build. I understand that, but the mentality that the whole game has to be played with cookie cutter build is just crap.

unienaule · Aug 23, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Wow, PUGs are bad? Most people in Guild Wars don't have a clue what they're doing? I HAD NO IDEA.

As for barrage sucking, Splinter Weapon-Barrage says hi. Barrage was good even before that though, definitely not the "worst ranger skill ever."

Navaros · Aug 23, 2007, 07:38 PM // 19:38

It's not a "fault" at all. Fault implies something negative. Not having to rely on horrible PUG players thanks to Heroes is a blessing, not a fault. If it was to be anyone's fault, it is the fault of the vast majority of PUG players who quite frankly are, always have been, and always will be, utterly horrible and a waste of time to play with.

As I posted in another thread yesterday about the same thing which got closed I shall post here too since it's the same subject:

In my view PUGs that actually bother checking builds are the very few competent PUGs that exist.

Usually, PUG players are so bad that they cannot succeed with Heroes/Henchies even though doing so is extremely easy if one understands the game --- which is why they are in a PUG in the first place. Therefore most of the time PUG players do not bother checking anyone's build simply because the PUG leader is not a good player, does not understand the game, and doesn't know what a good or bad build is if he sees it pinged. So he doesn't bother asking to see builds merely because he's a bad player.

Therefore, if you in a PUG and someone asks to see your build, be thankful that you are possibly in one of the very few competent PUGs out there. Be thankful the good players asking to see your build are actually bothering to PUG with you when it would be much easier and much faster for them to make a much better party out of Heroes and/or Henchmen instead of PUGing with you.

Voltar · Aug 23, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

The thing is that "elitist" doesn't really capture the vibe. These people are friggin stupid. That's my point (unfortunately both of these were alliance groups)...It's the "SF is the only ele elite for heroes" and "barrage is the best ranger move in the game" people. The ones who rely on wiki to tell them what the "best move in the game" is since they don't know on their own from actually playing that profession. That's what I'm talking about. Stupid people that jerk off to the wiki...not people that tell you that "12 prot, 12 healing, 3 df" is a bad idea. That is a bad idea. That is something that if..."vetted by the wiki community"...would become the only monk build allowed.

That's the mentality I'm talking about. I'm not talking about defending bad builds.

To clarify:

One group was for (I think) Kodonur Crossroads (the one with all the centaurs). That's a tab/spacebar mission in NM. I joined a group that got wiped at the first mob...I suggested switching to [wiki]broadhead arrow[/wiki] to compensate for the lack of dps on the rest of the group's part. I was told adamantly to switch to some redundant "interrupt-only" build that wouldn't really work with 3/4 sec prot monk casts. I left the group and beat that mission with hero/hench.
That group-leader was an obsidian tank. He was useless and an idiot who shoved irrelevant wiki builds down our throats.

The other group was for Sunjiang District. This guy wanted Slinter/Barrage. Any ranger primary will tell you that barrage sucks, no matter how you candy-coat it with non-runed attributes. I was compliant in this group and did my mild to mediocre aoe damage to easily healed targets and got a lot of really small yellow numbers (and "miss" over the heads of the sins since i wasn't allowed to single-target dps them down like I would've wanted to). This group wiped on the ranger portal (the second one) and I hero'd it with a friend afterward (didn't beat the mission because we steamrolled the trash mobs and kept the momentum going for the 4 end-game bosses which (lamely on our part) aggro'd them all).

The point is that people are incredibly gung-ho on skills that they hear are good and shove lame builds down your throat even though they have no idea what they're tallking about. This isn't an "elitist" issue. I'd probably be one of the elitists.

rancidgoat · Aug 23, 2007, 07:51 PM // 19:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squirrel Oo

Originally Posted by Squirrel Oo
This has been around ever since wiki and guru became popular. The thing I personally don't like is the trade illusions that people believe in. "but guru said this thing costs 100k", "guru says 10k I sell for 5k"... and etc. The truth is people trust these sites way too much. There is no arguing about the info I have found here and in wiki, but sometimes it justs misleads people. I haven't seen anyone insisting on me using a particular build just because wiki said so, but I have definitely met some people that just asked for a build and kicked me If I disagreed. In such cases I just make my own party for missions. It's normal when you ask someone to be a MM/SS necro for example but asking for a particular skillbar with weird skills just because you read it in a site is plain stupid. When these skills actually make the missions way easier it's OK. Same thing goes for prices. The majority of ppl trusts guru for a price check. We all know that most of the green item prices are really outdated (at least they used to be, I haven't checked it lately) and almost everyone claims that "wiki said" what the price of everything is. Too bad they don't realize how wrong they are in some cases. I consider such guys amateur traders. And these "tempting offers" - wiki says 10k but I sell for 5k... IDK if people actually go for that. Big mistake. Anyways, my point is that this syndrome has been around for a long time. Don't take it personally, just ignore such players and make your own party for example. Or consider the possibility that the build they want you to use is working fine. But when it seems crazy just move on and leave the idiot leader alone. :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

WTF?

ditto the WTF. what was the point of that rambling? Guru price checks are done by members and Mods that watch the markets in game and quote prices accordingly, if you dont like the price quote you got thats your problem or your item was merch food and you just didnt want to hear it.